Friday, August 7, 2009

Public Prayers in Jesus' Name

It seems that Gordon Klingenschmitt is on a crusade in Lodi, California demanding that public prayers "in Jesus' name" be permitted at Lodi City Council meetings.

Klingenschmitt, who runs "The Pray in Jesus' Name Project," was court-martialed from his job as a chaplain in the US Navy in 2006 for appearing at a religious-right protest in his military uniform, which is against military regulations. But Klingenschmitt says he was court-martialed for praying in Jesus' name.

But now Klingenschmitt is determined to have prayers in Jesus' name at Lodi City Council meetings. What is it with these loony Christians who want to foist their prayers on us at government institutions? Don't they read their own Bible?

Jesus said "But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret..." (Mathew 6:6, KJV).

The Lodi city bylaws only permit non-denominational prayers at their city council meetings. Apparently, this allows for a wide swath of the gullible superstitious hordes to be content. But if you allow prayers in Jesus' name at these meetings, then you open up a big old can of worms. Because, to be fair, you'd have to allow people of all religious stripes to have their denominational prayers as well, whether they be Muslims, Hindus, Satanists, Scientologists, Raelians, Rastafaris, Wiccans, Flying Spaghetti Monsterists, and so forth.

One can't but help wonder what Klingenschmitt and other Christian fundamentalist nutjobs would make of that. I doubt they'd be pleased, and I don't doubt they'd fight against these other prayers because America is a "Christian nation."

But the truth is that America is a pluralistic nation, so, as far as government sponsored prayers go, it's either all or nothing: all manner of prayers or no prayers at all. I'd prefer the latter.

Klingenschmitt is so far off the deep end that he offered up a prayer for the deaths of Mikey Weinstein of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation and Barry Lynn of Americans United for Separation of Church and State. Praying for someone's death is called an "imprecatory prayer," and guess what? It's in the Bible, so it must be okay.

Here's Klingenschmitt's imprecatory prayer:
Let us pray. Almighty God, today we pray imprecatory prayers from Psalm 109 against the enemies of religious liberty, including Barry Lynn and Mikey Weinstein, who issued press releases this week attacking me personally. God, do not remain silent, for wicked men surround us and tell lies about us. We bless them, but they curse us. Therefore find them guilty, not me. Let their days be few, and replace them with Godly people. Plunder their fields, and seize their assets. Cut off their descendants, and remember their sins, in Jesus' name. Amen.

What a fine upstanding Christian this Klingenschmitt fellow is.







10 comments:

edward said...

YOUR EXPLETIVES TELL ON YOU. YOUR OBVIOUS DISRESPECT FOR CHRISTIANS SHOWS VERY CLEARLY YOUR SUBJECTIVENESS RATHER THAN YOUR OBJECTIVENESS IN THIS ISSUE OF PRAYER. YOU BAGGED EVERY CHRISTIAN WHEN YOU CALLED US "NUTJOBS". PERHAPS YOU COULD BE SO KIND AS TO READ THE BIBLE THROUGH COVER TO COVER AND EXPLAIN TO SOMEONE AS ILLITERATE AND UNEDUCATED AS I, WHY WE ARE ALL "NUTJOBS" IF OUR FAITH TOWARD GOD IS ACTIVE, AND YOURS HAS BEEN NEGLECTED. ED WELLINGTON, AUTHOR OF LIFEISHID.COM

edward said...

The Paris Peace Treaty of 1783 begins with the words: "In the name of the most holy and undivided Trinity." There was no mention of other gods in the treaty, and that treaty is the legal document that established America as a nation in the sight of England, France and other nations of the world. Are you sure your education was as thorough as you suppose was? This nation is pluralistic because its foundations have been corrupted, not because they were pluralistic. The ability to pray was in open use in the war for independence and other wars America won. Have you noticed how this great superpower of ours has had great difficulty winning in Viet Nam and in other conflicts since our freedom to pray to the God of the Bible has been hindered?

Yvonne said...

Sir: You ought to reconsider your message since it puts you in opposition to God Almighty. You obviously do not understand the value of obedience to the all powerful Creator of all reality.

Charles Sullivan said...

@edward

I have no respect for those who push their religion on others.

Klingenschmitt is a nut job of the worst sort. If you support him and his imprecatory prayers then I see you as no different.

Concerning treaties, what about article 11 of the Treaty of Peace and Friendship between the US and Tripoli signed in 1796?

"As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion,-as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen,-and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

I've read the Bible, and I find most of it disturbing and superstitious nonsense.

Charles Sullivan said...

@Yvonne

I'm a nonbeliever, so why would I want to submit to your imaginary god? That makes as much sense as asking to submit to Zeus, or Apollo, or Allah.

edward said...

CHARLES,


I DO APPRECIATE YOUR HONESTY AND HOPE YOU WILL APPRECIATE MINE.

I HAVEN'T SHOVED RELIGION DOWN YOUR THROAT NOR WOULD I EXPECT YOU TO BELIEVE IN ANY GOD YOU DO NOT BELIEVE IN. THANKYOU FOR YOUR HONESTY IN THAT PORTION OF THE MATTER.

AS AN EDUCATED BELIEVER WHO WAS CONFRONTED BY IGNORANT BELIEVERS WHEN I WAS YET UNABLE TO SEE THAT GOD HAD LEFT MANKIND A BOOK WRITTEN INSPIRATIONALLY BY HIS SERVANTS OF OLD,
I CHALLENGED YOU TO CONFRONT THE LIE WE ALL LIVE WHO ARE AT ONE TIME OR ANOTHER OUTSIDE OF THE REVELATION. I HAD NOT READ THE BIBLE AND IN A MOMENT OF PROVOCATION WITH THEIR IGNORANT MANNERS IN CHALLENGING ME TO BELIEVE, I LIED TO THEM SAYING I HAD READ THE WHOLE BIBLE.

ACTUALLY I HAD READ THE FIRST THREE TO FIVE BOOKS MOSES HAD WRITTEN AND FOUND IT BORING. BUT THERE WERE SIXTY ONE BOOKS REMAINING; AND WHEN I FINALLY SHOOK THEM OFF WITH A SEVERE REBUKE TELLING THEM WHAT HYPOCRITES THEY WERE AND STILL ARE, I WENT HOME AND LOOKED IN THE MIRROR AND SAID TO MYSELF, YOU ARE A BETTER MAN THAN THEM, YOU ARE EDUCATED, YOU ARE HONEST AND YOU ARE INTROSPECTIVE. BUT YOU LIED. YOU TOLD THEM YOU READ THE WHOLE BIBLE TO GET RID OF THEM. NOW YOU WILL SIT DOWN AND READ THE WHOLE BOOK.

I LOOKED FOR THIS JESUS THEY WERE ALWAYS TALKING ABOUT AND THIS TIME I READ THE GOSPELS FOR A COUPLE OF HOURS AND MY HOME FILLED UP WITH THE PRESENCE OF GOD AND THERE WAS PEACE AND TRANQUILITY SUCH AS I HAD NEVER KNOWN, AND AS A TEACHER OF CREATIVE WRITING IN COLLEGE I RECOGNIZED THE MECHANICS OF THE WRITINGS AS BEYOND THE ABILITY OF MYSELF OR MY STUDENTS OR ANY WRITER OF FAME THAT I KNEW OF; AND WAS CONVINCED GOD HAD WRITTEN THE BOOK BEFORE ME.

THAT IS WHY I ATTEMPTED TO CHALLENGE YOU TO READ THE WHOLE BIBLE. I AM OF THE MIND THAT YOU COULD NOT HAVE SEARCHED FOR THE TRUTH WITHOUT GOD SEEING IT AND MAKING HIMSELF KNOWN TO YOU IN SOME WAY. TO BELITTLE WAS NOT MY INTENT AND EVEN IF YOU SUSPECTED IT; PLEASE ACCEPT MY APOLOGIES.

Ed Wellington

edward said...

CHARLES,

I DO NOT KNOW Klingenschmitt AND WAS NOT DEFENDING HIM. I DID RETURN TO YOUR WEBSITE TO READ HIS PRAYER. IT IS NOT A GODLY EXAMPLE AND EVEN THOUGH HE WAS HIRED AS A CHAPLIN, HE WAS OBVIOUSLY NOT QUALIFIED FOR THE JOB. NONETHELESS, YOUR CHOOSING AN IMMATURE AND UNDEVELOPED BELIEVER ONLY PROVES HE IS IMMATURE AND UNDEVELOPED. IT DOES NOT PROVE THE BIBLE IS WRONG NEITHER DOES IT PROVE THERE IS NO GOD.

IT IS AN EMBARRASSMENT FOR YOU, A TEACHER TO USE SUCH ADJECTIVES AS "NUTJOB" INSTEAD OF THE EVIDENCE YOUR AUDIENCE NEEDS. THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE YOU MUST ALREADY KNOW AND HAVE NEGLECTED AS AN EDUCATED INDIVIDUAL, ....BETWEEN SUBJECTIVITY AND OBJECTIVITY. HOW ELSE CAN DIFFERING VIEWS GET A HEARING BETWEEN THOSE WHO DISAGREE UNLESS INFLAMMATORY SPEECH IS AVOIDED AND YOU DO AS YOU HAVE DONE WITH ME IN PROVIDING THE LITTLE TREATY BETWEEN AMERICA AND THE MUSLIMS.

I SAY IN COUNTERPOINT "LITTLE" IN COMPARISION WITH THE "THE TREATY OF PARIS" THAT ESTABLISHED US AS A SOVEREIGN NATION.

I REMEMBER THE PROBLEM EARLY AMERICA HAD WITH THOSE PIRATES AND DO NOT THINK WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A TREATY BETWEEN NATIONS, BUT ONE WITH PIRATES. SO IT OUGHT NOT TO HAVE THE SAME WEIGHT AS EVIDENCE AS THE TREATY OF PARIS, AND I THINK YOU WILL AGREE MUSLIMS ARE AN IRRATIONALE PEOPLE AND MUST BE DEALT WITH IRRATIONALLY; WHICH PROBABLY EXPLAINS THE NON CHRISITAN DECLARATION.

MEANWHILE IF YOU DO NOT WISH TO SEARCH FOR A GOD YOU DON'T BELIEVE EXISTS, ...I CERTAINLY DO RECOGNIZE THE LOGIC. AS A MAN GETS OLDER; THE FAITH GOD GIVES EVERY ONE WHO COMES INTO THIS WORLD VIA THEIR MOTHER'S WOMB......GETS WEAKER AND WEAKER UNTIL THOSE WEAK IN FAITH WILL SAY SUCH THINGS BECAUSE THEIR ABILITY TO BELIEVE IS GONE FROM THEM.

NONETHELESS, I DO NOT BELIEVE YOU COULD READ THE BIBLE THROUGH FROM COVER TO COVER OBJECTIVELY OPEN TO IT BEING A MESSAGE FROM GOD,.... WITHOUT COMING TO THE SAME REVELATION HE BROUGHT ME TO. THAT HE EXISTS. THAT HE IS INVOLVED IN OUR LIVES. THAT HE IS ALL POWERFUL. THAT HE SEES ALL THINGS. KNOWS ALL THINGS. AND THAT THERE WILL BE A RAISING OF THE SAVED AND THE UNSAVED FOR REWARDS AND PUNISHMENT TO COME AFTER THIS LIFE IS OVER.

SUPERSTITIOUS NON-SENSE. SURE. IF YOU CAN'T MAKE SENSE OF THE BIBLE, IT WILL BE SUPERSTITIOUS NONSENSE TO YOU. BUT TO ME THE LORD'S SERVANT ALL OF THESE YEARS,....HAVING EXPERIENCED SO MUCH IN THE REALM OF THE SPIRIT BEYOND THE HUMAN SENSES;....IT ALL MAKES PERFECT SENSE. AND BECAUSE IT DOES, http://www.lifeishid.com IS MY FREE GIFT TO THE WORLD, ....AND TO YOU CHARLES, AND FOR ALL THOSE WHO WANT TO AVAIL THEMSELVES OF THE REVEALED KNOWLEDGE GOD HAS GIVEN ONE MAN.

I DO NOT GO TO THE CHURCHES OR HANG OUT WITH CHRISTIANS BUT I DO BELIEVE IN THE GOD OF THE BIBLE. IN THE WORLD TO COME THE IMMATURE AND IGNORANT CHRISTIAN WILL HAVE TO BE RE-EDUCATED, SO I DO NOT RECOMMEND THEIR HYPOCRITICAL WAYS AND AM VERY SORRY TO HAVE TO SPEAK IN THIS LIGHT. IT WOULD BE SO MUCH EASIER TO STAND WITH MILLIONS OF THEM AND SAY "HOW CAN SO MANY OF US BE WRONG?"

INSTEAD I AM LEFT WITH THE TESTIMONEY OF MY OWN PERSONAL EXPERIENCE.

Ed Wellington

Charles Sullivan said...

@ edward

I'll have more to say shortly, but your caps lock is stuck. Could you undo it and quit shouting, please?

Charles Sullivan said...

@ edward

Why can't I comment on your blog, edward?

Are you afraid of what I might say?

It only seems fair to open up your blog to me, as I do for you, no?

Anonymous said...

Charles, Caps are easier to type than non caps. I didn't know it would seem like shouting to you. My apologies. A blog on my website library at Life is hid.com would be distracting from the great amount of time necessary to bring it all to a state of readiness. Meanwhile there is my take on Evolution there which is unique. Perhaps you'd like to comment on it. Ed Wellington